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Re: Abortion


Dear Anna, I agree 100% that the extremes are horrible. When it comes to murder cases, etc., I made up my own term for this syndrome: the "kill them all" mentality!

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7/9/2007, 12:04 pm Link to this post Send PM to pumpkinette1
 
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Re: Abortion


quote:

Michigan Magpie wrote:

quote:

lilanna wrote:

I tried to persuade a girlfriend of mine not to have an abortion.. I concentrated on trying to get her boyfriend to wake up to the Christian values he claimed to espouse! I lost the argument and the child became an abortion statistic! I sometimes think that if i said or did something different that child would be alive today! I simply can't stand the feeling of helplessness when the life of a child is at stake!

Some may call me a hypocrite because i accept abortion in the cases of severe birth defects and rape victims..The all or nothing thinking, which we have in the abortion and the DP debate as well, is unhealthy and extremist!



I agree, Anna. Both issues are so complex that the all or nothing thinking just doesn't fit. There are too many what if's and exceptions when it comes to both topics for many people. It is hard not to take it to heart when a child is aborted and you oppose abortion with all of your heart. But you shouldn't blame yourself. People will do what they want to do no matter what you say or do. You should be patting yourself on the back for standing up for your beliefs and making an effort to do something about it.



the thing is, it has to be all or nothing. it is obsiously wrong to kill a viable fetus, but before they become viable, it is either always okay, or never okay.
if you believe that abortion is wrong, you believe that it is killing a human being. in that case, it is killing a human being whether the issue is rape, incest, or health of the mother.
as previously stated, i am unsure whether abortion is wrong. i have had four girlfriends who had one, over my objections, but it turned out to be for the best.
by the way, i don't believe that the idea of telling the girl to have the baby and put it up for adoption is an intelligent choice. there are already far too many kids waiting to be adopted, and most of them never will.

7/9/2007, 12:33 pm Link to this post Send PM to iamjumbo1
 
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Re: Abortion


I think every young woman who feels the way I do about abortion..i could never abort a healthy child..should make this clear to their partner! You may be surprised how respectfully this adamant statement-i won't kill your child, if i become pregnant is received!

In Germany anti-abortionists must be careful though because they can be thrown in jail for their views!
http://healtheland.wordpress.com/2007/06/26/germany-jails-lutheran-pastor-johannes-lerle-for-anti-abortion-sermon/ Quote:

Germany Jails Lutheran Pastor Johannes Lerle For Anti - Abortion Sermon
Posted by healtheland on June 26th, 2007

http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/2211 Another view here: http://rantburg.com/poparticle.php?ID=191573&D=2007-06-24&HC=5

Last week, a German court sentenced a 55-year old Lutheran pastor to one year in jail for “Volksverhetzung” (incitement of the people) because he compared the killing of the unborn in contemporary Germany to the holocaust. Next week, the Council of Europe is going to vote on a resolution imposing Darwinism as Europe’s official ideology. The European governments are asked to fight the expression of creationist opinions, such as young earth and intelligent design theories. According to the Council of Europe these theories are “undemocratic” and “a threat to human rights.”

Without legalized abortion the number of German children would increase annually by at least 150,000 – which is the number of legal abortions in birth dearth Germany. Pastor Johannes Lerle compared the killing of the unborn to the killing of the Jews in Auschwitz during the Second World War. On 14 June, a court in Erlangen ruled that, in doing so, the pastor had “incited the people” because his statement was a denial of the holocaust of the Jews in Nazi-Germany. Hence, Herr Lerle was sentenced to one year in jail. Earlier, he had already spent eight months in jail for calling abortionists “professional killers” – an allegation which the court ruled to be slanderous because, according to the court, the unborn are not humans.

Other German courts convicted pro-lifers for saying that “in abortion clinics, life unworthy of living is being killed,” because this terminology evoked Hitler’s euthanasia program, which used the same language. In 2005, a German pro-lifer, Günter Annen, was sentenced to 50 days in jail for saying “Stop unjust [rechtswidrige] abortions in [medical] practice,” because, according to the court, the expression “unjust” is understood by laymen as meaning illegal, which abortions are not.

Volksverhetzung is a crime which the Nazis often invoked against their enemies and which contemporary Germany also uses to intimidate homeschoolers. Soon, the German authorities will be able to use the same charge against people who question Darwin’s evolution theory.

Indeed, next Tuesday, the Council of Europe (CoE), Europe’s main human-rights body, will vote on a proposal which advocates the fight against creationism, “young earth” and “intelligent design” in its 47 member states.

According to a report of the CoE’s Parliamentary Assembly, creationists are dangerous “religious fundamentalists” who propagate “forms of religious extremism” and “could become a threat to human rights.” The report adds that the acceptance of the science of evolutionism “is crucial to the future of our societies and our democracies.”

“Creationism, born of the denial of the evolution of species through natural selection, was for a long time an almost exclusively American phenomenon,” the report says.
7/10/2007, 1:28 pm Link to this post Send PM to lilanna
 
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Re: Abortion


and i thought that germany was a democracy. that's what i get for thinking, i guess.
the reality is, whether you agree or not, where abortion is legal, you still do have the inherent right to voice opposition. you do not have the right to act as some imbeciles in the "pro-life" arena in the u.s. the punks that blow up abortion clinics, murder doctors, and harrass women going into the clinics are so much worse than what they're bitching about.
as long as you are just talking though, you have every right to voice your opinion.
what makes the german government think that it's any better now than it was in the 1930s and 1940s? there's clearly no difference.
7/10/2007, 8:46 pm Link to this post Send PM to iamjumbo1
 
Michigan Magpie Profile
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Re: Abortion


quote:

lilanna wrote:

I think every young woman who feels the way I do about abortion..i could never abort a healthy child..should make this clear to their partner! You may be surprised how respectfully this adamant statement-i won't kill your child, if i become pregnant is received!

In Germany anti-abortionists must be careful though because they can be thrown in jail for their views!
http://healtheland.wordpress.com/2007/06/26/germany-jails-lutheran-pastor-johannes-lerle-for-anti-abortion-sermon/ Quote:

Germany Jails Lutheran Pastor Johannes Lerle For Anti - Abortion Sermon
Posted by healtheland on June 26th, 2007

http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/2211 Another view here: http://rantburg.com/poparticle.php?ID=191573&D=2007-06-24&HC=5

Last week, a German court sentenced a 55-year old Lutheran pastor to one year in jail for “Volksverhetzung” (incitement of the people) because he compared the killing of the unborn in contemporary Germany to the holocaust. Next week, the Council of Europe is going to vote on a resolution imposing Darwinism as Europe’s official ideology. The European governments are asked to fight the expression of creationist opinions, such as young earth and intelligent design theories. According to the Council of Europe these theories are “undemocratic” and “a threat to human rights.”

Without legalized abortion the number of German children would increase annually by at least 150,000 – which is the number of legal abortions in birth dearth Germany. Pastor Johannes Lerle compared the killing of the unborn to the killing of the Jews in Auschwitz during the Second World War. On 14 June, a court in Erlangen ruled that, in doing so, the pastor had “incited the people” because his statement was a denial of the holocaust of the Jews in Nazi-Germany. Hence, Herr Lerle was sentenced to one year in jail. Earlier, he had already spent eight months in jail for calling abortionists “professional killers” – an allegation which the court ruled to be slanderous because, according to the court, the unborn are not humans.

Other German courts convicted pro-lifers for saying that “in abortion clinics, life unworthy of living is being killed,” because this terminology evoked Hitler’s euthanasia program, which used the same language. In 2005, a German pro-lifer, Günter Annen, was sentenced to 50 days in jail for saying “Stop unjust [rechtswidrige] abortions in [medical] practice,” because, according to the court, the expression “unjust” is understood by laymen as meaning illegal, which abortions are not.

Volksverhetzung is a crime which the Nazis often invoked against their enemies and which contemporary Germany also uses to intimidate homeschoolers. Soon, the German authorities will be able to use the same charge against people who question Darwin’s evolution theory.

Indeed, next Tuesday, the Council of Europe (CoE), Europe’s main human-rights body, will vote on a proposal which advocates the fight against creationism, “young earth” and “intelligent design” in its 47 member states.

According to a report of the CoE’s Parliamentary Assembly, creationists are dangerous “religious fundamentalists” who propagate “forms of religious extremism” and “could become a threat to human rights.” The report adds that the acceptance of the science of evolutionism “is crucial to the future of our societies and our democracies.”

“Creationism, born of the denial of the evolution of species through natural selection, was for a long time an almost exclusively American phenomenon,” the report says.



I didn't know about the jail sentences being handed down in Germany for voicing opinions against abortion. That just isn't right. It sounds as though they are twisting laws in an attempt to keep people quiet.

It's better to voice opinions than bomb clinics and murder doctors, nurses, and secretaries.

Scary stuff, Anna.



---
Peace,
Michigan Magpie
7/12/2007, 12:30 am Link to this post Send PM to Michigan Magpie
 
lilanna Profile
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Re: Abortion


quote:

Michigan Magpie wrote:

quote:

lilanna wrote:

I think every young woman who feels the way I do about abortion..i could never abort a healthy child..should make this clear to their partner! You may be surprised how respectfully this adamant statement-i won't kill your child, if i become pregnant is received!

In Germany anti-abortionists must be careful though because they can be thrown in jail for their views!
http://healtheland.wordpress.com/2007/06/26/germany-jails-lutheran-pastor-johannes-lerle-for-anti-abortion-sermon/ Quote:

Germany Jails Lutheran Pastor Johannes Lerle For Anti - Abortion Sermon
Posted by healtheland on June 26th, 2007

http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/2211 Another view here: http://rantburg.com/poparticle.php?ID=191573&D=2007-06-24&HC=5

Last week, a German court sentenced a 55-year old Lutheran pastor to one year in jail for “Volksverhetzung” (incitement of the people) because he compared the killing of the unborn in contemporary Germany to the holocaust. Next week, the Council of Europe is going to vote on a resolution imposing Darwinism as Europe’s official ideology. The European governments are asked to fight the expression of creationist opinions, such as young earth and intelligent design theories. According to the Council of Europe these theories are “undemocratic” and “a threat to human rights.”

Without legalized abortion the number of German children would increase annually by at least 150,000 – which is the number of legal abortions in birth dearth Germany. Pastor Johannes Lerle compared the killing of the unborn to the killing of the Jews in Auschwitz during the Second World War. On 14 June, a court in Erlangen ruled that, in doing so, the pastor had “incited the people” because his statement was a denial of the holocaust of the Jews in Nazi-Germany. Hence, Herr Lerle was sentenced to one year in jail. Earlier, he had already spent eight months in jail for calling abortionists “professional killers” – an allegation which the court ruled to be slanderous because, according to the court, the unborn are not humans.

Other German courts convicted pro-lifers for saying that “in abortion clinics, life unworthy of living is being killed,” because this terminology evoked Hitler’s euthanasia program, which used the same language. In 2005, a German pro-lifer, Günter Annen, was sentenced to 50 days in jail for saying “Stop unjust [rechtswidrige] abortions in [medical] practice,” because, according to the court, the expression “unjust” is understood by laymen as meaning illegal, which abortions are not.

Volksverhetzung is a crime which the Nazis often invoked against their enemies and which contemporary Germany also uses to intimidate homeschoolers. Soon, the German authorities will be able to use the same charge against people who question Darwin’s evolution theory.

Indeed, next Tuesday, the Council of Europe (CoE), Europe’s main human-rights body, will vote on a proposal which advocates the fight against creationism, “young earth” and “intelligent design” in its 47 member states.

According to a report of the CoE’s Parliamentary Assembly, creationists are dangerous “religious fundamentalists” who propagate “forms of religious extremism” and “could become a threat to human rights.” The report adds that the acceptance of the science of evolutionism “is crucial to the future of our societies and our democracies.”

“Creationism, born of the denial of the evolution of species through natural selection, was for a long time an almost exclusively American phenomenon,” the report says.



I didn't know about the jail sentences being handed down in Germany for voicing opinions against abortion. That just isn't right. It sounds as though they are twisting laws in an attempt to keep people quiet.

It's better to voice opinions than bomb clinics and murder doctors, nurses, and secretaries.

Scary stuff, Anna.



It is scary! The "Staatsverleumdung" law "defaming the state" is another scary anti-free speech law, which can used against people who harshly criticize the German state! No 1st admendment here! It's good to be discret in this country if you support views that aren't approved by the state.. The government surveillance in Germany is much more extensive than in the US and unlike the US with the "Freedom of Information Act" the government does not reveal what is monitoring, why? and how they may use this information.. In the US with the FOI Act the US government reveals after 10 years any surveillance they may have done on you..if you accidentally opened an Al Qaida or KKK link in a spam mail than you're registered and this will be revealed to you if you wish!

7/12/2007, 1:49 pm Link to this post Send PM to lilanna
 
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Re: Abortion


A new poll conducted by the New York Times and CBS News finds that 56 percent of Americans wants abortions
to be illegal or under more strict limitations. The survey found 22 percent of Americans say abortions should not be permitted and another 34 percent wants abortions to be much harder to get than they are currently. Jut 41 percent of those polled say abortion should generally be available without any limits. The media outlets asked
respondents the following question: "Which of these comes closest to your view? Abortion should be generally available to those who want it; Abortion should be available but under stricter limits than it is now; or Abortion should not be permitted?"
The poll found that the number of Americans who don't want any limits on abortions has risen from 34 percent in March to 37 percent in May and 41 percent now. Those wanting more limits has fallen from 41 percent in March to 37 percent in May to 34 percent now. The percentage of those who do not want abortions permitted at all has held steady from 23 percent in March to 21 percent in May to 22 percent now. Pro-life observers said the poll is faulty because, while it pretends to offer a pro-life,
pro-abortion and middle ground answer, it actually puts most pro-life advocates in a tough spot by forcing them to choose the middle ground response. Polls that break down abortion attitudes into various categories find a 55-45 percent pro-life split and a large portion of the pro-life advocates say abortion should be illegal in virtually all cases except to save the life of the mother or in cases of rape and incest. Such people don't have a category in a poll like this one that gives them only an option to have abortion not be permitted in any case without exception. The CBS News/New York Times poll featured telephone interviews with 1,554 American adults and was conducted from July 9 to July 17. It has a margin of error of three percent.

http://lifenews.com/int357.html
7/29/2007, 8:22 pm Link to this post Send PM to biglinmarshall Blog
 
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Re: Abortion


http://www.LifeNews.com/nat3269.html

Abortion leads to higher crime rates and murder
8/9/2007, 10:35 pm Link to this post Send PM to biglinmarshall Blog
 
Michigan Magpie Profile
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Re: Abortion


This article doesn't make much sense. It says: A study conducted by a researcher at the University of Maryland shows that legalized abortion has led to higher rates of crime and increased murder rates. The (sic) occured because a higher percentage of children grew up in single-parent homes during the years following Roe v. Wade.

Roe v. Wade had nothing to do with how many single parent homes there would be. It only made abortion legal. Divorce is the biggest reason for single parent homes, not abortion.

I don't see the connection at all.

---
Peace,
Michigan Magpie
8/19/2007, 6:24 pm Link to this post Send PM to Michigan Magpie
 
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Re: Abortion


Honestly, i kinda have mixed opinions about it. Personally i don't really think women should get abortions, but its their choice not mine. In a perfect world, without dangerous pregnancies and rape and birth defects and unsafe sex and all that !@#$, i dont think abortions would be nessacary. Ya dont want a kid? Put it up for adoption, and give it a chance for a loving family. But the world isnt perfect, and all that crap exists, so i think espically if going thrpugh with birthing the child could harm the kid or the mother, then if thats your only option, have an abortion. If it was the result of insest or rape, have an abortion. But personally, if its perfectly safe and healthy, you just dont want a kid, dont kill it, give it a chance to have a family that loves it, and put it up for adoption. Too many people think moral issues like this are all black and white, but there not. People can have mixed opinions

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5/23/2022, 11:55 pm Link to this post Send PM to ashur1sbor3d Blog
 


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